verbalobe ([info]pilgrim_eye) wrote,
@ 2008-02-27 12:47:00
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Recap from the cheap seats
I've been thinking about what looked like polarized opinions -- Joe Edley, Dan Pratt, perhaps others, on one side, and myself on the other -- and especially about Joe's 'good old days' post which I tried to puncture, and I've come to a key conclusion.

Putting myself in Joe's place, there *was* something distinct about the NSC incident: the bingo is what he intended -- in fact, for a brief second, he believed he had played it.

Let's look at a closely similar case: Player A sets down LANYARD, and as he is reaching to place the S, there's a loud disruption at the next table, he drops the S in the wrong spot, and hits the clock.

In the latter case it is (a) even more clear what Player A intended, and (b) the distraction was public and shared. In such a case I am guessing that a majority of directors would rule that the S could go where it was intended, and play proceed. I could be wrong.

In the actual case, I'm guessing that real director rulings on the spot would be a little more mixed -- possibly leaning toward disallowing Joe's S. But Joe is a great arguer, so I could be wrong :)

For comparison, I've been on the side of arguing that the blank designation process should account for "what was intended." It seemed absurd for this newfangled written form to supersede a clearly announced "T" in ELA?ION, and for the bingo to be disallowed when the Florida court examined the chads and determined the "S" had a bit more of the ink on it. Especially when the designation forms themselves don't have a standard format and can lend themselves to confusion.

I guess that puts me in the same camp with Joe and Dan -- what is happening to the game, when petty-minded rules and minuscule procedures can overtake the simple act of putting down the damn word and adding up the damn score?

The NSC case feels different from two angles.

One, hitting the clock is more sacrosanct than writing down a blank. Hitting the clock is used as the definitive marker for many other rules, including challenging, calculating overtime, and more. On the other hand, as we've seen this week, we have no problem coming up with other outlier scenarios where the spirit of the game can be applied to overtake it: dropping a tile, confusion after returning from a judging station, accidental clock-hitting-while-sneezing, clock malfunctions, etc.

I'll be blunt about the second angle: it's Joe.

The rhetoric (including my own) in this week's discussion obscured an important distinction. Were we asking: "Would a reasonable person, in either JKB's place, or in a director's place, allow LANYARDS?" Or were we asking: "Should Joe have asked?" And when many of us opined that Joe should not have asked, I believe others took it to mean that no reasonable person would agree to this.

I will state that MANY reasonable people would have agreed to this -- in fact, till now, I've taken pains not to bring JKB into this, but the fact is there: Jason is as strong, bright, and reasonable as they come, and he agreed to it. If we're asking the first question, the answer is far from a no-brainer. I'd like to think that I would insist on bringing over a director, but I can't be sure. It was a unique circumstance.

But when we ask "Should Joe have asked?", we're actually making an inquiry into "right behavior." It's not particularly about the rules, or exceptions from the rules; it's not rigid constructionism vs. feel-good 'spirit of the game' -- because asking for something is not a decision. And the answer has a gray area -- a larger gray area, certainly, than I initially proposed. No newly written rule is going to dictate that one can't or shouldn't ask for a ruling in the case of some weird occurrence.

For example, if it had been me, in the heat of the moment, I might have turned my rack to ruefully show my opponent the "S" I'd left there, to explain why I had announced 70-something instead of 20-something. Would that action have constituted "asking"? What if my opponent then committed an "act of kindness"? So there are gray areas.

What if the 7LW had been a phony? What if the 8LW would have been a phony? The mind boggles.

In my mind it comes back to that very personal reaction to having hit the clock. It's very clear to me that the purest, cleanest, most knightly, BEST action is to gut it out -- you flubbed it, take your lumps. The distraction was of his own making. The "S" was still on his rack. A bizarre mistake, but an "angelic" player would not ask.

News flash: A lot of us are not angelic. This is a GAME (read, "war"), and the objective is to win. So this to me becomes a very interesting example of a case where "integrity" doesn't tell the whole story. Don't you consider it a breach of integrity to not try your hardest to win? So we get into all those other interesting areas, like intentional phonies, body language, and other aggressive gamesmanship that is short of coffeehousing and every bit a part of tournament SCRABBLE.

It's a little like losing by 2, and being asked in the hallway, "Did you recount?" If you answer, "Nah, too much trouble," some players look at you like a lesser mortal -- why wouldn't everyone do everything possible within the rules to win?

Should Joe Edley be held to the "angelic" standard? I think that's what a lot of us were, in effect, saying. Given his position and profile, it seemed shocking that he took the most aggressive (verging on breaking-of-the-rules) course, rather than an intermediate course (calling a director, or ruefully displaying the "S" as I might have done) or the purest course (sucking it up).

But you know, I think that's Joe. A 3-time National Champion is going to be someone with some chops (some kind of chops). You may not like 'em, but he is who he is.

It's a separate question altogether whether that's the person to represent SCRABBLE, especially if "representation" encompasses writing the rules, commenting on the rules, appointing AB members, directing, directing directors, competing, writing books, authorizing books, and more. I'm not saying Joe isn't fit for any of this, just that the job description has inherent conflict of interest, and sometimes you need someone who can articulate the side of the angels.


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[info]jigsawn
2008-02-27 08:02 pm UTC (link)
I think you're overthinking it.

(I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, as I *often* do the same thing myself.)

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[info]pilgrim_eye
2008-02-27 08:16 pm UTC (link)
Isn't that what they said to Plato?

:-)

Of course you're right.

On the upside, I will now probably absent myself from scrabble squabbles for a while, and obsess over something completely different, like homemade chili or keeping a cricket colony alive.

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[info]dianagram
2008-02-27 08:30 pm UTC (link)
or running for NSA head honcho .....

(please?)

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[info]listeme
2008-02-27 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Now you cut that out!

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[info]jigsawn
2008-02-27 08:48 pm UTC (link)

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[info]pilgrim_eye
2008-02-27 09:18 pm UTC (link)
That's Lucy Van Pelt, not John Van Pelt.

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[info]dianagram
2008-02-27 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Lucy has some gender identity issues ... thus she herself seeks help.

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[info]jigsawn
2008-02-28 12:15 am UTC (link)
That's Lucy Van Pelt, not John Van Pelt.

I'm glad you got the joke. :)

I thought of you being the "doctor" to cure the NSA's ills, and made the association to Lucy... and voila!

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[info]pilgrim_eye
2008-02-28 12:24 am UTC (link)
I thought you were saying anyone who aspired to lead the NSA should have their head examined!

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[info]jigsawn
2008-02-28 12:25 am UTC (link)
You could replace the capital "N" with a capital "U" and that would still be a true sentence.

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[info]hector31
2008-02-27 09:55 pm UTC (link)
In my mind it comes back to that very personal reaction to having hit the clock. It's very clear to me that the purest, cleanest, most knightly, BEST action is to gut it out -- you flubbed it, take your lumps. The distraction was of his own making. The "S" was still on his rack. A bizarre mistake, but an "angelic" player would not ask.

Hi John: I think your contribution to this debate over the last few days has been for the most part fantastic (and much-needed, because so many of the well-respected voices of Scrabble apparently had no interest in going public with a stance), but I agree with Jiggy here, you're overthinking it on this last post.

Does one really have to be "angelic" to not ask for a mulligan in this instance? There are a lot of words you could have used in that area; "angelic" wouldn't have been my pick. To me, if you respect the rules, if you respect the integrity of the event, you don't even think of asking, just like you don't think of asking for a do-over when you grab eight tiles instead of seven, or slot IX down instead of XI.

I grant that there are angles to the rules that get a little silly or cumbersome, and there will always be players who take great lengths to try to manipulate, bend, and even break rules to their favor. We'll never get all of that perfect. I'd also like to see "spirit of the game" stay in our room, in some form. But if we can't accept at least a very basic set of rules and guidelines that everyone is following, our tournaments fall apart. And to me, the explicit commitment of hitting the clock - whatever was played stays as is, pending a challenge - has to be one of the foundations of that.

Extenuating circumstances, a distraction? I'll buy that if there's a helicopter crash through the ceiling. But Player A shouldn't get a pass from a mistake via their own self-created, minor distraction.

My two cents, which might be worth less with ratings deflation.

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(Anonymous)
2008-02-27 10:27 pm UTC (link)
"Terry and Joel,

I like you both a lot, but implicating either Joe or me that we did
*anything* wrong is absolutely unacceptable. Please apologize.

I'm not going to share my version of the events, or my reason or
motives behind my behavior, because at this point, I have nothing more
to say than, stop characterizing me as a little naive boy!

All the best,
Jason"
-----------------------------------------------------
The e-mail above shows an example of why people are not willing to go public with a stance on this. Although what happened was clearly unethical (by both players) and outside the rules, one of the top players who is involved in this incident responds in this manner. He is basically telling Joel W. and Terry to shut up, and even demanding an apology for THEIR unacceptable behavior, although Jason offers no justification for why he chose to go outside the rules. All Joel W. and Terry did was to offer their opinions on a rules situation, yet they are chastised by Jason for this.

Let's be clear; Scrabble is not run by a democracy. In this case, both Joe and Jason seem to believe they can do whatever the hell they want regardless of rules. The holier-than-thou attitude in Jason's response really bothers me.

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[info]jigsawn
2008-02-28 12:31 am UTC (link)
Extenuating circumstances, a distraction? I'll buy that if there's a helicopter crash through the ceiling.

What if the helicopter crashed through the ceiling and knocked down a piece of the ceiling which fell directly on the clock, pressing it after the player had laid down six of his tiles, but not yet the seventh for the bingo?

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Definitely overthinking, you had everything right the first time
[info]gijoel666
2008-02-28 05:28 pm UTC (link)
And we can tell this from Edley's self-defense on cgp.

1) He repeatedly tries to claim a significant qualitative difference between his error and playing a backward 2 or transposing tiles, admitting the latter are not forgivable, but appropriating kindness for himself. I don't think any of us see all of the errors compared as having any such qualitative difference. And the reason we don't see a difference is that each one is committed to by pressing the clock. No one forced Joe to press the clock when he did. Even if he was distracted, a player of his experience and seriousness could and usually would then delay pressing the clock to make sure every aspect of his play was as he intended it.

2) He harps on the notion "there's no harm in asking" when what he really means is he "had nothing to lose from asking and everything to gain", and there is definitely a qualitative difference between what he was saying and what he was most likely thinking. No matter what you expect the outcome of asking to be, there absolutely *is* harm in asking, because a) it's wrong to change one's own mistake into an ethical (and possibly also emotional) dilemma for opponent; and b) it's wronger still when doing so gives even the appearance that you may be relying on some dynamics of a preexisting relationship to sway the opponent's judgment.

3) Finally, of course, the "random act of kindness" has to be willingly offered, not preemptively requested.

Just about everything Joe has said in his own defense has been not an effort to justify or even excuse what he did, but to deny that it was wrong. The fact that none of the rest of us would have considered asking for the do-over suggests not that that's the angelic response, but that it's recognized, accepted to be the normal, ordinary response. That's all the proof I require that asking was what was wrong. When you commit to a blunder by pressing your clock, you can do a lot of things, (and no, ruefully showing the S is not one of them either, that's another form of coffeehousing or potential collusion, and yet another reason why Joe's request is wrong -- making the request necessitated giving away that info): you can laugh, you can cry, you can smack yourself hard upside the head, you can even curse if you need to (once should be sufficient), but what you do NOT get to do is pretend you are Ali MacGraw's annoying little sister with a ping-pong paddle in "Goodbye Columbus". We *all* have to take responsibility for that clock press and whatever we've done until then, not just those of us who don't have as much "chops" as Joe.

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Re: Definitely overthinking, you had everything right the first time
[info]pilgrim_eye
2008-02-28 07:14 pm UTC (link)
You and Hector are right. Upon unreoverthinking it (or is that reunoverthinking?) I guess I bent too far backwards in trying to accommodate a world view where everyone has license, according to his or her own sense of astonishment, outrage, or entitlement, to insist on being able to do "what they intended" (or at least insist on being offered the opportunity to do so), regardless of what it is they actually did.

It still concerns me that there is a noticeable clutch of players who DO seem to feel this way (JE, Dan P, anyone else who outright defended Joe). But maybe I won't worry about those unless I play them, and even then, just do as I would normally do.

(Win. :)

As for ruefully showing the S, I'd like to believe I wouldn't do that in a tournament. Perhaps in a club game (with no club $ on the line), if the circumstances were truly double-smack-on-the-forehead-worthy. But under no circumstances (even if completely volunteered) would I accept an opponent's "act of kindness," if offered.

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Re: Definitely overthinking, you had everything right the first time
[info]dianagram
2008-02-28 10:22 pm UTC (link)
Heh .... and wouldn't it have been poetic justice if JKB's allowance of Joe's S enabled JKB to make an otherwise unmakable great play.

But karma doesn't always work that way ...

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Re: Definitely overthinking, you had everything right the first time
[info]dianagram
2008-02-28 10:20 pm UTC (link)
I don't s'pose you want to put that wonderful response on cgp. Its THAT good.

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